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User:Kallerna

The following discussion is archived. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

This is to ask for review recent (sysop) actions by Kallerna.

a) I had blocked Karelj for a duration of 3 days for uncivil comments. Latest was this one, which comes as very disrespectful towards the photographer, however Karelj is well known for other disrespectful FPC "reviews" such as this one, for which I already had warned him, which he opted to ignore completely.

b) Several users agreed on obvious incivility of such comments, such as: Aristeas, SHB2000, XRay, Radomianin.

c) Nonetheless, Kallerna came "out of nothing" and unblocked the user -- completely out of process, without seeking any discussion, neither with me nor on Admins' noticeboard, also there wasn't even an unblock request on Karelj's talk page.

d) The unblock comment was "Groundless block [...] Silencing user who do not agree with you?", which I find libelous obviously false and uncivil, as neither did I ever discuss with Karelj in any sort of disagreement, nor did I vote or otherwise comment in the same FPC nomination whatsoever.

e) Similarly poor was their comment on my talk page ("Please do not block users who do not share the same views as you", etc.).

f) Further discussion on my talk page with Kallerna on this matter turned as useless.

g) Therefore, Kallerna's behaviour should be reviewed in terms of: 1) incivility -- due to false claim of myself blocking a user because of contentual disagreement; and 2) obvious violation of Commons:Blocking policy, in particular: "To avoid wheel warring, another administrator should lift a block only if there is consensus to do so, even if there is no clear consensus in favor of the original block".

The sysop Kallerna I'm going to notify on this thread.

Thanks --A.Savin 22:19, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

+1 to what A.Savin said. I also find Karelj's refusal to communicate a major red flag – not just for the above but also for "But the image here looks, like from child, who receivd his first photoaparate and learns, how to operate with it". Kallerna should have discussed this beforehand, instead of unilaterally unblocking and making spurious accusations. --SHB2000 (talk) 06:40, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

I am not going to get involved here, as I am already part of the discussions about incivility on that nomination page. I just wanted to make people aware that Kallerna is one of only 3 people opposing this FPC nomination (which has more than 20 support votes), so when judging the possibility of a conflict on interest one should consider this fact. --Kritzolina (talk) 08:11, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

This – thanks for mentioning it, as that too hasn't been mentioned before. --SHB2000 (talk) 09:56, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

Hi, I agree that 1. Karelj's comments are quite rude, if not disrespectful, 2. Kallerna's unblock is out of process. If you don't agree with a block, please discuss it instead wheel warring. Yann (talk) 08:27, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

Hi Yann, thanks for your comments. I have explained my actions in the user talk pages of A.Savin and Karelj. There is also a lot of conversation about the possible rudeness of Karelj in the nom page. I reverted the block due to it being inadequat, as pointed by fellow admistrator Christian Ferrer. —kallerna (talk) 09:18, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

@Kallerna: Would you also like to explain your possible conflict of interest as mentioned by Kritzolina above? --SHB2000 (talk) 10:21, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

@Kallerna: I wouldn't have blocked Karelj at this point, but your hastily unblocking is nevertheless an issue. It sends the wrong message. Yann (talk) 12:40, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

I agree with you, I should have contacted another administrator here and let someone else revert the block. However, the user had been wrongfully blocked for two days at that point, so I did not want to wait any longer. —kallerna (talk) 14:22, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

A showcase example how not to address a complaint about one's own behaviour. --A.Savin 14:46, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

Kallerna, if you snarkily try to dodge attempting my question (or A.Savin's) by Dec 2, I will start a nomination to desysop you. Sysops need to be held accountable to their actions; not answering questions raised towards you about your potential misuse of tools is a red flag and is unsysop-like behaviour. --SHB2000 (talk) 08:39, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

 Comment I would support that. Kallerna is good photographer, but definitely not good for the sysop team. As a (possibly offtopic) side-note, look at their talk page (the QI promotions). They have uploaded masses of images of contemporary buildings in South Korea where there is no FoP. Many have been deleted already. A sysop should have at least a very basic knowledge what to upload on Commons and what not. Kallerna seems not to have this knowledge. And this arrogancy is the final straw. Thanks --A.Savin 13:35, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

@Kallerna: courtesy ping – 2 days left to answer my/A.Savin's question before I will start a desysop nom. --SHB2000 (talk) 21:19, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

1 day left, Kallerna. --SHB2000 (talk) 05:14, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

Hi, I've been travelling the last week all over Europe (at the moment at airport) and have not seen these comments. I'm sorry, but I do not know why you have this motivation to de-admin me. All I did was unblocking wrongfully blocked user. You are not a admin, and you are not involved in the matter - I did not have any reason to communicate with you. I'm here to contribute to the project, not to discuss with trolls. —kallerna (talk) 08:49, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

@Kallerna Are you calling SHB2000 a troll here? Kritzolina (talk) 08:52, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

Wow, that's some serious baseless accusations right there, Kallerna. "I do not know why you have this motivation to de-admin me" – I want Commons to be a project with sysops that has sysops who know how to use their tools properly. --SHB2000 (talk) 08:55, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

Currently both sides seems to be rather over provocative. You all should cool down and try not to the escalate situation. -- Zache (talk) 10:00, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

It would be useful to know exactly how I'm provocative, however at least I didn't insult a long-term contributor and Wikivoyage admin a troll. --A.Savin 14:20, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

In this case you were from start threatening with consequenses [1], [2]. From that things did go in couple days from mishandled blocking/unblocking to deadmin vote. However, being admin not about competition, but co-operation and i would say that more fruitful course of action would have been just to explain why you gave the block and ask why it was lifted without any threatening. So that there would be understanding between admins why they did what they did. The discussion could have taken so much time that original three days block would have been irrelevant, but it doesn't afaik really matter. If initially blocked user continues bad behaviour there would have been new blocks because that, if not then problem was solved anyway. --Zache (talk) 19:05, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

"Silencing user who do not agree with you" is clearly disrespectful, uncivil comment, especially given the fact that it's also false. Kallerna, you still didn't response how come that I'm "silencing users". This block log comment should be hidden at the very least. --A.Savin 13:25, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

Could a third admin please hide this comment? Thanks --A.Savin 14:46, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

 Done I hid the edit summary. Abzeronow (talk) 17:23, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

Thanks. --A.Savin 17:28, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

@A.Savin, Kritzolina, Yann, and Abzeronow: Since it's December 2 and Kallerna did not respond, I started a desysop nomination which can be found at Commons:Administrators/Requests/Kallerna (de-adminship). Apologies in advance for any formatting errors (I'm new to this process). Pinging everyone involved in this discussion. --SHB2000 (talk) 00:04, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

I understand that one may see the edit summary as insensitive, but might it be worth keeping it public for the duration of the de-adminship discussion be worthwhile so that the log can be seen by participants? @A.Savin and Abzeronow: Would either of you have an objection to this sort of thing? — Red-tailed hawk _(nest) 03:23, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

Yes, temporarily unhiding is no problem. --A.Savin 03:47, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

I'd have no problem with temporarily unhiding if it is necessary. Abzeronow (talk) 16:34, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

 Done Per request/consent. GMG^talk 01:02, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

I have closed the de-admin request as inadmissible per policy. Commons:Administrators/De-adminship states: "Please note this process should only be used for serious offenses in which there seems to be some consensus for removal;". From the above discussion I see nothing that can be called consensus. Personal comment: There should no room for uncivilty, there should be more blocks for uncivilty, and such blocks shall not be removed. Supporting a hostile environment should not be seen as acceptable conduct of anybody, especially not of an admin. --Krd 14:53, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

Wow, Commons really lets sysops get away with such misuse of tools – I thought it was pretty clear from this discussion that Kallerna's behaviour was inappropriate. Oh well... --SHB2000 (talk) 20:45, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

Well, we can of course accuse Kallerna of lifting the block and ignoring questions on purpose, but we can hardly accuse anyone here on Commons of not having commented in this thread. --A.Savin 04:49, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

Yeah, I'll admit I severely overreacted when I wrote that comment above. --SHB2000 (talk) 05:13, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

I think A. Savin hit the nail right on the head in the discussion above: «Kallerna is good photographer, but definitely not good for the sysop team.». Well, sure. I mean, Kallerna might also be an excellent driver, a keen model railroader, or a loving spouse — but it doesn’t matter. Being a good photographer is only relevant for Commons in as much as they publish their good photography with a suitable license. It doesn’t follow necessarily that a good photographer would also be a good curator of photographs and other media, let alone a good sysop thereof. -- Tuválkin ✉ ✇ 12:55, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

For the record, I think A. Savin's block was harsh but within bounds of policy as Karelj was being disruptive by their behavior of making disrespectful comments. Kallerna's unblock was totally against policy, sends the wrong message as Yann said above, and I'm also concerned that they show no contrition for the unblock or the lack of communication beforehand. They also have not addressed that their COI in the matter. I also concur with Krd that we cannot support a hostile environment. Abzeronow (talk) 16:17, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

• @A.Savin: I would only suggest that the original post needs reworded per COM:NLT. There are many ways we can express our view without using legal terms like libel. GMG^talk 21:13, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
  • • Corrected. --A.Savin 02:32, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
  • Having had a bit more time to look into the matter... No, one admin should not reverse another's actions without discussion unless it is egregious misuse of the tools that leaves room for little interpretation, something of the type that you start looking for a Steward for an emergency desysoping. I would expect an acknowledgement of this standard as a bare minimum from Kallerna. Having said that, it's a little on-the-nose to be arguing over incivility and the response from A.Savin is "bla bla", which very much comes off in text as being frustrated and not super keen on discussing the issue on equanimous terms. GMG^talk 22:12, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

In broader terms: undoing a block is almost never (maybe literally never?) an emergency. Unless I'm missing something, in this case the block (whether justified or not) had one more day to run! Commons can do without any individual contributor, myself included, for a day. - Jmabel ! talk 22:06, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

@Kallerna: Since you said you were travelling (see above), I waited before writing this. Hopefully you can answer now.

Do you maintain you position, i.e. that your unblocking of Karelj was justified? Also do you apologize for calling SHB2000 a troll? Thanks, Yann (talk) 13:25, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

+1 GMG^talk 13:47, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

+2 --A.Savin 14:12, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

+3. --SHB2000 (talk) 07:46, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

• I've been informed privately that Kallerna will be indisposed until at least the end of the holidays. I would suggest that we have a touch of the spirit of the season and recognize that this can be resolved, but that waiting a touch doesn't necessarily constitute a crisis. GMG^talk 20:25, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
  • @GreenMeansGo: that's fine with me if Kallerna is genuinely taking a break; there is nothing emergent here if they are not actively using their admin privileges. When they are back, though, this needs to be on the radar. - Jmabel ! talk 20:39, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
  • I agree with Jmabel here, there's no rush to this. Hopefully, they will answer questions after they come back from their break. Abzeronow (talk) 20:48, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

    I agree – a lot of people will be on break in the next 3 weeks, myself included. As long as they answer our questions and apologise to A.Savin, that's good with me. --SHB2000 (talk) 07:49, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

    • Agree with Krd that these tactics more look like "ducking away" rather than like real lack of possibility to respond. Nowadays, even when being on travel (as for most regions of the world esp. Europe), you don't have to stay offline all the time. --A.Savin 15:23, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

      • @A.Savin: it's not a matter of being unable to access the net, it's a matter of someone choosing to take a break, which is an entirely reasonable thing for someone to do. - Jmabel ! talk 19:02, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

      Yeah, very reasonable, especially if there are pending complaints about you and you don't have any arguments left in your defence, except "I don't discuss with trolls". --A.Savin 02:40, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

      I agree. I'm only a little sympathetic because often I don't have internet access while travelling and plan these months beforehand, but I want a definitive date from Kallerna. --SHB2000 (talk) 01:14, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

      But Kallerna, could you give us a rough date of when you will be back? --SHB2000 (talk) 01:11, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

      • @SHB2000: Given that Kallerna literally hasn't edited any WMF project since 3 December, it is very unlikely that they will even see your question until they are back. Certainly they are doing no harm while absent. - Jmabel ! talk 05:01, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

As this seems to take indeed longer, I'm adding a 30 day archive blocker in code here -> (). Best regards --Schlurcher (talk) 19:53, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

On enwiki it's sometimes labeled "ANI flu". DMacks (talk) 03:06, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

I laughed my ass off when I read that article (and found w:Wikipedia:Oops Defence). SHB2000 (talk) 01:15, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

Counterpart

Hi everyone, it seems that my answer is needed here. First of all, I want to apologize everyone involved this waste of time - this is not the way we should spend time on Commons. I also apologize SHB2000 for my choice of words, I should have not called you a troll. I however still wonder your motives to use so much energy on this matter: I suggest focusing on more positive and constructive matters.

So to the case here. Karelj made a controversial comment, and he was blocked by A.Savin. Not everybody thought the comment was evil [3]. I unblocked Karelj after two days of block, and did it without discussing about the matter or asking someone else to do the unblocking. This was obviously a mistake. However, some users agreed on lifting the block and Karelj did only beneficial contributions to Commons while unblocked.

Then I guess we are in the actual start of the problems discussed here. I told A.Savin that I lifted the block, and got quite rude replies (and also removal of comments). I did not want to waste everyones time, and I was passive. This was another mistake.

I see it rather odd that most participants here see controversial block with rude comments less harmful to the project than unblocking active editor. And I also want to emphasize that I do not agree with Karelj on most matters - I only reverted the block because I thought it was inadequate. And like said I should have not done it without discussing about it first. —kallerna (talk) 09:33, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

No satisfactory statement for me. The fact that this "waste of time" (which is actually true) had to be gone through we owe only you, Kallerna.

And I also want to emphasize that I do not agree with Karelj on most matters... Let me reveal a secret -- I *do* agree with Karelj on most matters (at least on FPC), I just don't find it okay at all the way he writes it down, including shallow and often disrespectful comments, poor English, etc. So, here we go again: how did the block have anything to do with disagreement, as you noted in the unblock comment? Kallerna, may I finally have an answer please? --A.Savin 14:38, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

I see, that was also incorrect assumption by me, I'm sorry. The comment was unnecessary. —kallerna (talk) 15:40, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

Hm, I am a bit confused by what you think is rude and what is acceptable on Commons, Kallerna. On a scale of 1 to 10 - how rude was A.Savin's reply to you after lifting the block? And how would you place Karelj's comment that led to the block on that scale? Kritzolina (talk) 20:22, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

Both are low on your scale, and either of those comments is worth of blocking the user. It is also noteworthy that the photographer herself was not offended, but the professionally offended around. The reason why I mention the coarseness of A.Savin is purely due to the fact he blocked another user due rude comments. —kallerna (talk) 04:40, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

@Kallerna: I cannot even guess what "the professionally offended around" means. - Jmabel ! talk 06:27, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

Hmm, I undestand it in this context like this: Other people in the community, those who are more sensitive or vigilant about offensive content, took issue with the comments. -- Zache (talk) 06:50, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

And where do you see a comment like "professionally offended" on this scale? I actually would love to hear numbers ... Kritzolina (talk) 12:59, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

I also don't see any satisfactory statement. You explicitly pointed out that you were not personally involved, but you are also not an admin who is generally active in blocking or unblocking users. What was your business in removing this block, overriding the rationale of an admin who is generally active in blocking or unblocking users? --Krd 09:42, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

Blocking an active user should not be made without discussion. Default position should be unblock, not block? Generally I find it again odd that blocking an active user without discussion is ok, but unblocking is not. You are correct that I am not a active admin, but I have done my share of blocking vandals in other projects. —kallerna (talk) 14:46, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

Agree with Krd. --A.Savin 15:47, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

+1 to A.Savin. At least thank you for the apology, kallerna. --SHB2000 (talk) 00:37, 31 December 2023 (UTC)

If you were wondering why I'm spending so much time on this issue – well, that's because I want Commons to be a place where admins actually use their tools properly; not a place where admins get a snarky layer of protection for wheel-warring. --SHB2000 (talk) 00:39, 31 December 2023 (UTC)

It appears there is no more feedback, so it's time to conclude? --Krd 15:41, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

Yes, it seems like this thread isn't going anywhere. Killarnee (talk) 17:49, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

@Krd and Killarnee: It looks to me like immediately below there is a pretty strong consensus that we should have a discussion on possible deadminship for User:Kallerna. - Jmabel ! talk 20:20, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

I don't disagree. Krd 20:45, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

 Comment Yes, anyway 14 support + 3 oppose votes would be a successful result if this were an RfA, so despite weak participation we can assume consensus. Pinging SHB2000 and Jeff G. As said, I would support desysop although this is kind of a borderline case to me -- which is the reason that this time I wouldn't like to start such a desysop procedure myself -- however only Kallerna and no one else we owe the fact that this actually pretty minor issue had to come as far; so yes, after that half-hearted apologies I still stand by my opinion that Kallerna is a miscast as a Commons admin. Actually, it would be WAY better if Kallerna would spare us the timewaste and resign voluntarily. Thanks --A.Savin 22:19, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

Agreed. --SHB2000 (talk) 23:02, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

Agreed.   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ _{please ping or talk to me}🇺🇦 00:39, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

So, are we good to make the second de-adminship discussion? --SHB2000 (talk) 11:25, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

As stated above, I'd support. --A.Savin 13:35, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

@A.Savin: Reading between the lines of special:diff/838734061, a Admin should close the following section so someone may start the second de-adminship discussion. I am hesitant to even close the following section because I opened it.   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ _{please ping or talk to me}🇺🇦 14:01, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

I think the desysop procedure should be started first, and then subsequently this ANU thread be closed; similarly as in the 1989 case. --A.Savin 15:46, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

@A.Savin: So what is stopping you from starting the second de-adminship discussion?   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ _{please ping or talk to me}🇺🇦 16:45, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

I'm hesitant to make the second as I flopped the first. --SHB2000 (talk) 22:35, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

Deadminship for User:Kallerna

•  Support. This subsection should clearly show Bureaucrats whether or not there is a consensus because Commons:Administrators/Requests/Kallerna (de-adminship) was deemed "inadmissible".   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ _{please ping or talk to me}🇺🇦 16:11, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
•  Support Had Kallerna written in this statement sth. like "I've been travelling the last week all over Europe, no time to read this discusion, but meanwhile I see that it was my mistake, I shouldn't have unblocked Karelj without discussion, and it is also not true what I said that A.Savin wanted to be silencing a user who disagreed with him, I'm sorry for that", then we could have closed the whole thread straightaway and move on, but seeing what they actually wrote... No way. --A.Savin 16:50, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
•  Support Defending uncivil behaviour by being uncivil and overriding normal procedures on the way is not what I expect from an admin. --Kritzolina (talk) 17:03, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
•  Support as the nominator of the now-invalid thread; what Kritzolina and A.Savin mentioned. Thanks for starting this subsection, Jeff G.! --SHB2000 (talk) 20:42, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
•  Support I'm not as extreme as A.Savin, but Karelj shouldn't have been unblocked without discussion, and Karelj hasn't even seemed to hear that the edit comment was as much of a problem as the unblock.--Prosfilaes (talk) 21:28, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
•  Support not to discuss with trolls ... ouch Killarnee (talk) 21:51, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
•  Comment Neutral on de-adminship, but in favor of starting a formal process to discuss it. It doesn't worry me as much that Kallerna did the wrong thing in the first place as that the way they've handled this (including apparently not understanding that non-admins are allowed to participate in this page, and calling another user a "troll" for doing so). If Kallerna believes this was fine on their part, then that's a problem. If they understand at this point that they blew this -- in more than one respect -- then maybe they are liable to grow into the job. - Jmabel ! talk 22:02, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
•  Oppose GMG^talk 17:27, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
•  Oppose I do not believe this isolated incident rises to the level of a desysop. -- King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 17:58, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

  At least an acknowledgement from Kallerna would be good, but no, they've yet to acknowledge why their actions were problematic. Had they done so, I don't think we'd be having this discussion. --SHB2000 (talk) 09:06, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

•  Oppose per above. 1989 (talk) 18:04, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
•  Comment terrible unblock on the basis of both procedure and what I'd call a degree of involvement (karel and kallerna having more or less the same style of participation at fpc, and this being about fpc participation), but to the extent this is about that one unblock I'd say this should be closed with an unequivocal warning. I'd prefer to see a pattern or at least another example of bad judgment with tool use to support here. Stopping short of opposing though, as I think it's reasonable to say "we should have a deadminship conversation" which is all this section is deciding. — Rhododendrites ^talk |  20:40, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

  Right, "we should have a deadminship conversation".   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ _{please ping or talk to me}🇺🇦 10:22, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

•  Comment What Jmabel said. The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 10:07, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
•  Support per OP and Jmabel. --Daniele Fisichella 12:53, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
•  Support per above. -- Tuválkin ✉ ✇ 21:01, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
•  Support Jalapeño (talk) 08:23, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
•  Support Schlurcher (talk) 08:31, 13 December 2023 (UTC) . The following quote shows are huge misunderstanding of Commons policies: You are not a admin, and you are not involved in the matter - I did not have any reason to communicate with you. (the part before the comma should be irrelevant)
•  Support Their only block log entry is the one under discussion here, which has a taste on it's own. The attitude shown above, plus ducking away, holiday season or not. --Krd 08:52, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
•  Support Per Schlurcher. Guido den Broeder (talk) 19:27, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
•  Neutral I agree with Jmabel above. I'm not there yet as far as thinking Kallerna should be de-sysopped, but the de-adminship conversation should be allowed to move forward. Abzeronow (talk) 16:20, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
•  Support I have been reading this entire conversation for the last one hour and I could not find a "fair acknowledgement" without ifs and buts. KoH makes a sensible statement that this is kind of a rare incident but as SHB2000 has noted a clear acknowledgment from Kallerna is missing, plus per Krd. ─ The Aafī (^talk) 13:31, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
•  Support I didn't originally think it justified action outside of a slap on the wrist, if even. But if Killarnee supports it themselves then I don't really see any reason not to take the tools away. Plus as others have pointed out it's not like they have acknowledged the issue. It's weird how unwilling admins are to admit they made a mistake sometimes. Totally a self-own. So whatever. Just take the tools away and be done with it. --Adamant1 (talk) 11:42, 31 December 2023 (UTC)

  Me? Killarnee (talk) 03:48, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

  @Killarnee: It appears @Adamant1's mistake. Kallerna and Killarnee are too closely sounding names. ─ The Aafī (^talk) 05:57, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

  Yeah, I meant Kallerna. My bad. I struck that part of my comment. --Adamant1 (talk) 06:00, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

•  Support despite Kallerna's comment above. Yann (talk) 22:25, 3 January 2024 (UTC)
•  Support I can understand that A.Savin's block for Karelj's comment in the FPC nomination appeared harsh. Probably few admins would have blocked here. Still, the comment was disrespectful and I understand the desire to enforce a more civil communication within the FPC nominations. Few admins ever went ahead to enforce civility in FPC nominations. As Karelj had been warned before, this did not come entirely unexpected. It should be noted that A.Savin was not involved in the discussion of this FPC nomination but kallerna was with a comment that was at least as disrespectful as that of Karelj. The subsequent unblock came without discussion despite being involved in the discussion of the FPC nomination. Remarkably, this is the very only sysadmin action by Kallerna blocking or unblocking any user since becoming an admin in 2009. In the unblock comment Kallerna asks Silencing user who do not agree with you? while giving much reason to question their own motives behind the unblock. All this could be a singular event during a long tenure as admin. Then, however, we need a clear path forward which allows us to hope that this remains singular. Comments like I'm here to contribute to the project, not to discuss with trolls are not helpful in this regard. Eventually, Kallerna apologizes for it but not without recommending to focus on more positive and constructive matters while finding it rather odd that most participants here see controversial block with rude comments less harmful to the project than unblocking active editor. I do not find this convincing as it appears half-hearted and comes without any statements regarding a future approach to resolve such conflicts. I think a regular process where we see whether Kallerna has still the trust of our community as admin is warranted. --AFBorchert (talk) 23:21, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

  I agree that the block was unnecessary, and that A. Savin was uncivil, but neither is the issue here. Cheers, Guido den Broeder (talk) 15:20, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

•  Support An admin getting de-admin for admin abuse?...if only there were people with balls on that other project.....and they call us the inferior project..--Stemoc 23:36, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

---

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

I'm closing this thread, as Commons:Administrators/Requests/Kallerna (de-adminship 2) has now been started. --A.Savin 01:50, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

Socks of IvanRamonTrillos

Please block Sbshshib (talk · contribs) and BX XBXBVDV (talk · contribs). They both reuploaded File:Oscareduardo10 Logo.png and therefore are socks of globally locked spammer IvanRamonTrillos (talk · contribs). Thanks. Kacamata! ^Dimmi!!! 03:07, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

 Done: Thanks for reporting this, Kacamata. Both accounts and IvanRamonTrillos are obvious sockpuppets of LTA case Oscareduardo10 (talk · contribs). I've indef'd the accounts. --AFBorchert (talk) 06:52, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

BTW, there are far more accounts involved in this case of LTA, see now Category:Sockpuppets of Oscareduardo10 for the sockpuppets that are associated with Oscareduardo10 and which were active at Commons. See also Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Oscareduardo10/Archive for more background and CU confirmations. --AFBorchert (talk) 07:28, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

@AFBorchert: Thanks for the block and for supplementing m:srg#Global lock for socks of locked IvanRamonTrillos!   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ _{please ping or talk to me}🇺🇦 12:52, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

Thanks @AFBorchert and @Jeff G.. I found another sock Clgucjfsls (talk · contribs). They just uploaded File:Oscareduardo10 Logo.png. Can this file be protected against recriation? Kacamata! ^Dimmi!!! 20:54, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

@Kacamata: This wouldn't help. The socks have used other filenames as well. --AFBorchert (talk) 23:29, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

@AFBorchert I see. Thanks. Kacamata! ^Dimmi!!! 23:46, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

Sbshshib (talk · contribs), BX XBXBVDV (talk · contribs), and Clgucjfsls (talk · contribs) have been locked on 10:42, 1 January 2024. --AFBorchert (talk) 10:19, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

@Kacamata: You're welcome.   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ _{please ping or talk to me}🇺🇦 11:21, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

With LiveEdu (talk · contribs) another short-lived sock appeared which was indef'd by The Squirrel Conspiracy. --AFBorchert (talk) 08:02, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

User:Marginataen

Marginataen (talk · contributions · Move log · block log · uploads · Abuse filter log) block user

Marginataen has uploaded a large number of images of people associated with a Danish political party. None of the ones I have looked at have metadata, although Marginataen claims to be the photographer in each case. It is possible that they travel around Denmark taking photos at party events, but if so, they should upload the original images with metadata to prove their authorship.

Some are clearly not there own work. For example, File:Peter Seier Christensen og Nigel Farage, 2018.jpg comes from Facebook, specifically here. Marginataen uploaded the original in April but recently uploaded a slightly cropped version without metadata.

The Marginataen account has been indef blocked on English and Danish Wikipedia for sockpuppetry. One of the sockpuppets, Zeitgeistu was recently involved in uploading AI "upscaled" images to Commons. It looks like the Marginataen account may have been doing the same thing, See File:Jevgenij Prigosjin, 2023.jpg. Counterfeit Purses (talk) 21:46, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

It is correct that am I currently blocked on the English Wikipedia. I don't get what is wrong about experimenting with the possibilities of AI image enhancement. I'll comment some more tomorrow. Marginataen (talk) 23:10, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

@Marginataen Some of the concerns with "AI image enhancement" were discussed here after you uploaded an "AI enhanced" portrait of Adolph Hitler. There is nothing wrong with experimenting with such tools, but when you upload the results to Commons without identifying them as "AI enhanced", that may be a problem. Personally, I am more concerned about the possibility that your uploads are be copyright violations. Counterfeit Purses (talk) 00:13, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

In my view: "that may be a problem" => "that is a major problem". - Jmabel ! talk 01:00, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

Sorry, I'm real tired. Pls give me 48 hours to write a more through response where I'll commtent on File:Peter Seier Christensen og Nigel Farage, 2018.jpg and more. In the meantime, you might want to read this. Marginataen (talk) 17:29, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

@Marginataen: I suspect that was the wrong link. You linked Steinsplitterbot archiving a bunch of threads. - Jmabel ! talk 18:42, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

No, it was not. Scroll down to the discussion about "File:Lars Boje Mathiesen, 2023.jpg" Marginataen (talk) 18:47, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

(for anyone trying to follow this, this is a more useful link to the same content. - Jmabel ! talk 00:05, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

@Marginataen I am sorry to hear that you are tired. I am feeling a little tired today, myself.

Can you please explain how on 14 September 2023, you were able to upload a larger (less cropped) version of the File:Pernille Vermund - Ny Borgerlige.jpg image that Ulla Højgaard uploaded as their own work on 9 May 2019.

Can you also explain how you appear to be a photographer but are unable to provide the original images with metadata, even for very recent pictures? Thanks. Counterfeit Purses (talk) 19:17, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

Considering their history of copyvios both here and on da.wiki (including a number of deleted files on this project spanning years), and their refusal to explain how they took these photos but don't have metadata, I have nominated all of their 'self' uploads for deletion here. Unless they're able to explain themselves, I'd also support an indef block on this project. The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 12:09, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

First of all, many thanks to @Jmabel provide at better link .I will refer a lot of what I otherwise would have written here to that linked discussion as I really this is just a repetition of that one. As stated there, I regreabbly damaged by credibility by uploading files not belonging to me. When Marchjuly pointed this out to me, I began adapting. With regard to File:Vermund, juni 2018.jpg, I was just a less cropped/higher resolution version of an imaag by Ulla Højgaard. If you go to that file, I under "Source" explicitly wrote (in Danish), "I didn't create this file, but assume it's okay to publish, as it's just the uncropped version of a file already released under a free license on Commons (see link)". I got it from a now removed blog post by Pernille Vermund about Lars Løkke on party's website (https://app.apsis.one/invalid-link). There is no way in which I would be able to prove this but you can see here in a non-removed blog post where a similar image is used or here where she uses a cropped version of the image in a Facebook post. Again, I never claimed ownership or authorship over that picture. Marginataen (talk) 13:31, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

@Marginataen So Ulla Højgaard isn't another of your accounts? I notice that you seem to have accidentally linked to some kind of marketing company instead of the party website. Counterfeit Purses (talk) 16:20, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

No, it is absolutely not another account of mine. I simply found a better version of the file she uploaded. I wrote that I assumed (Danish: antager) that is was ok because it was just a better version of that file. If that is not the case just delete it. If she uploaded the original file legitimately that has absolutely nothing to do with me. I explicitly write that I wasn't the author of that file. Marginataen (talk) 18:07, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

@Marginataen: I don't have any opinion as to whether you're using multiple accounts, but I don't think that the statement I was just a less cropped/higher resolution version of an imaag by Ulla Højgaard. If you go to that file, I under "Source" explicitly wrote (in Danish), "I didn't create this file, but assume it's okay to publish, as it's just the uncropped version of a file already released under a free license on Commons (see link)" is correct when it comes to Creative Commons licenses and Commons. My understanding is that the copyright holder has the right to release their work under a resolution of their choosing and of a size of their choosing; so, if a copyright holder releases a low-resolution crop of their work under a Creative Commons license that Commons accepts, then it's only OK to upload that file to Commons either at the same or a lower resolution and at the same or smaller size. I don't think it's OK to "un-crop" files and "re-resolution" files unless the license clearly allows it. In other words, it's not OK to upload a full-sized uncropped high resolution version of a cropped low resolution file unless the full-sized uncropped high resolution version has also been released under an acceptable free license by its copyright holder. I believe it's possible for a copyright holder to release a cropped low-resolution version of their work under one license (e.g. CC-by-sa-4.0), while at the same time releasing an uncropped higher resolution of the same work under a different license (e.g. CC-by-NC-ND) I think this is one of the reasons that Commons encourages those uploading their "own work" to upload uncropped full-sized high resolution versions of their work because then cropping or reducing the resolution of the work doesn't become an issue. -- Marchjuly (talk) 05:31, 31 December 2023 (UTC)

Oh, that makes sense which using the word "assume" also kind of implies :) In that case, just delete the better version Marginataen (talk) 10:12, 31 December 2023 (UTC)

Could we centralise the dicussion to either this threat or to here? Marginataen (talk) 10:24, 31 December 2023 (UTC)

 Done I've blocked Marginataen for 1 year for uploading non-free files after warnings, and for their extensive attempts to obstruct, distract, and otherwise prevent Commons from removing files they knew not to be theirs. I was vacillating on whether it should be indefinite or not, and would not object should another admin decide their conduct warrants a longer block. The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 20:22, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

@The Squirrel Conspiracy You should probably block their alternate accounts, Zeitgeistu, Bubfernr, and LatteDK. Økonom can probablly tell you if there are others. Even today, Zeitgeistu is uploading. Counterfeit Purses (talk) 21:37, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, I zapped those. The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 01:20, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

User:CT69

Please review the userpage and its discussion, both smell like an attack on the depicted person. Denniss (talk) 22:30, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

 Done Looking at their contributions across projects, I think it's possible. At the very least though, it's inappropriate uses of user and talk pages, so I've wiped them. The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 23:12, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

JTulioPT

JTulioPT (talk · contributions · Move log · block log · uploads · Abuse filter log) block user appears to be exclusively uploading columbian radio station logos, from what I've seen all tagged as {{CC-BY-SA 4.0}}, hovewer, there doesn't appear to be any evidence that the copyright holder agreed to release them under the terms of the CC-BY-SA. So far I have identified three distinct "groups" of files, so-to-speak:

• Complex non-free logos with no permission, e.g.
  • File:Radio Policía Nacional (Colombia) logo.png
  • File:Colombia Estéreo logo.png
  • File:El Sol (emisora) logo.webp (deleted thrice by now)
• files tagged as CC-BY-SA 4.0 that could arguably be {{PD-textlogo}}, e.g.
  • File:Nequi Colombia logo.svg
  • File:El Gourmet logo.png
• even older files that are tagged as {{own}} (which I do not consider to be credible, given the rest of this), e.g.
  • File:Emisora Atlántico Colombia.png
  • File:Boom FM Colombia logo.png
  • File:Radio Red Cristal Colombia logo.jpg
  • File:Tolima Stereo.png

They appear to have been blocked by @Yann: while I was composing this, however, I'm going to report this here anyway so someone with more experience on the columbian threeshold of originality can decide what to do with the uploaded files. Victor Schmidt (talk) 12:54, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

At least 3 among the 4 last are PD-textlogo IMO. Yann (talk) 12:56, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

48Riyazyatir

48Riyazyatir (talk · contributions · Move log · block log · uploads · Abuse filter log) block user after the last warning given last December, the user continues uploading plain copyvios. Günther Frager (talk) 17:30, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

 Done Blocked for a week + Commons:Deletion requests/Files uploaded by 48Riyazyatir. Yann (talk) 17:37, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

User:Atatnoone

Atatnoone (talk · contributions · Move log · block log · uploads · Abuse filter log) block user uploads thumb photos of models of unknown source and claim their ownerships without META data to prove it. Pierre cb (talk) 05:01, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

@Pierre cb: I warned this user. When you tag files, you should inform the uploader. Yann (talk) 05:19, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

@Yann: I did. Pierre cb (talk) 05:21, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

It is above another notification, where you marked one of the files as personal. Why did you? Guido den Broeder (talk) 05:50, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

Ah sorry, User:Netora tagged the files, but didn't inform the uploader. Yann (talk) 05:55, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

 Comment SDG or SDGs stands for Sustainable Development Goals. These are pictures of some conference. A couple do have META data. Guido den Broeder (talk) 05:23, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

User:WC-QHS

以下三張照片：

• File:Students of the National Chung Cheng University at the sports day 2008-10-31 01.jpg
• File:Students of the National Chung Cheng University at the sports day 2008-10-31 02.jpg
• File:Students of the National Chung Cheng University at the sports day 2008-10-31 03.jpg

標題是寫學生，但是卻被歸類為校友，這些都是由User:WC-QHS做出的編輯。可是，目前的分類只有學生歸學生，校友歸校友，並沒有將學生歸為校友的這種分類。因此，我將這問題曾向User:WC-QHS詢問過，等候23天，他還沒有回應，而他也沒有對照片做出修正，所以現在不清楚是標題Students打錯還是歸類Alumni放錯。最關鍵的是，照片中的人全部身穿便服，無法分辨是學生還是校友，這也就是為什麼需要將問題拿來這。如果是標題Students打錯，就需要將照片重命名。如果是歸類Alumni放錯，就需要將分類改為Students。--125.230.91.191 11:19, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

 Done 我已經為它們重新分類了。下次請您直接糾正明顯的錯誤，無須在此處報告。 0x0a (talk) 12:06, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

User:Dolores sepiol

He continues to upload copyrighted images and appears to exhibit a pattern of behavior involving uploading other copyrighted images after previous ones have been removed.

• File:Louisa-mak-black-dress.jpg copy from [4]
• File:Louisa-Mak-2023-white-dress-jewelry.jpg & File:Louisa-Mak-Portrait-Closeup-Cropped.jpg copy from [5]

Rastinition (talk) 17:07, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

So where did he get the META data? Guido den Broeder (talk) 17:23, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

@Guido den Broeder: no idea what metadata you are referring to, but File:Louisa-mak-black-dress.jpg was all over the web in 2020 and was a recent upload here. If User:Dolores sepiol is the author, even then she would have needed to go through COM:VRT to upload previously published work. - Jmabel ! talk 20:47, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

Possibly, but a new user wouldn't know that. Guido den Broeder (talk) 21:19, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

@Rastinition: when you bring up someone's conduct on this page, you are supposed to notify them on their user page. You didn't do that; if fact you wrote your post here in a manner that did not even mention them in a way that would give them a notification. I've now notified them. Please be more careful about that in the future. - Jmabel ! talk 20:50, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

@JmabelApologies, as the reported account engages in cross-wiki activities, I will make sure to copy information to various wiki versions in the future. Additionally, when copying that information, do I need to translate the text into the local language of each wiki version? Rastinition (talk) 23:19, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

@Rastinition: Nothing about "various wiki versions" here. You did not notify her on her Commons talk page, and you didn't use a form on this page like [[User:Dolores sepiol]] or {{ping|Dolores sepiol}} that would automatically notify her. - Jmabel ! talk 00:54, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

@JmabelI've simplified the issue. Never mind what I said about him on other wiki versions. I guess here, I just need to add @Dolores sepiol and change the title to User:Dolores sepiol. Rastinition (talk) 09:41, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

I believe he did receive the notification, but he still chose to upload images with copyright issues (and it's the second time he uploaded File:Louisa-Mak-Portrait-Closeup-Cropped.jpg from the same webpage to here). Rastinition (talk) 09:50, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

Sorry, I'm kinda new to this whole thing. I've just figured out how to view these messages here. All the photos I've uploaded was sent to me personally by the person who was photographed in the picture (who this wiki page belongs to), requesting that I help replace her original wiki photo. But as a public figure, a lot of her photos (which she took herself and might have posted onto her own social media) were stolen, or "used", by other webpages. And I believe wiki has even misidentified the source/copyright owners of some of these aforementioned photos that I've uploaded. Would any of you be so kind as to shine a light on the easiest way I could get rid of the original photo without going through a long-winded process of proving I do indeed have permission to use these images, or keep getting my photo taken down because Wiki is unable to identify the correct source of the image? Dolores sepiol (talk) 10:07, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

1. If we consider the perspective of the original file size and the file information attached to the image File:Louisa-Mak-Red-Dress-Event.jpg, I might believe that it was taken around the same time as the series of photos from https://www.instagram.com/p/CXyKSdzpB6W/. However, the photos in that series have a non-square aspect ratio, while the version you provided is square. Therefore, the version you uploaded is very likely a cropped and reproduced product.
2. File:Louisa-Mak-Portrait-Closeup-Cropped.jpg is clearly not the original image; it has been compressed.And File:Louisa-Mak-Portrait-Closeup-Cropped.jpg also shows clear signs of being cropped. It appears to be cropped from https://www.lukfook.com/tc/category/events-and-promotion/post/2023lukfookraceday.

Rastinition (talk) 10:43, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

I have 3 questions regarding (1),

a. the photo in question was indeed taken around the same time as the post you linked. However, even the photos within the posts are cropped in different aspect ratios, what made you arrive at the conclusion that it was the photo I uploaded which was cropped?

b. the photo I uploaded (File:Louisa-Mak-Red-Dress-Event.jpg) has not been published anywhere else on the internet, so why would it be a copyright violation?

b. assuming I am the owner of the photo, can I not crop my own photo, and then upload it to wiki? You are making it sound like it is forbidden to upload any cropped images onto the site. Dolores sepiol (talk) 10:57, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

1. The image with relatively complete file information is not mentioned for deletion, and I am not asserting that it has copyright issues. I am simply stating the possible status of that image. If my statement is not clear enough, I am stating that the image not requested for deletion is very close to the original.
2. The image mentioned for deletion is clearly a reproduction. Regardless of who provided the image, it is currently being reasonably used by other websites, and those websites have not granted authorization to you. If the channel through which you obtained the image has already granted authorization for its use to you, you should also verify whether the provider holds complete copyright. Depending on the form of authorization, sometimes even the photographer may not necessarily possess complete copyright.

Rastinition (talk) 11:12, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

@Dolores sepiol: Hello, if you are copyright holder, you need to go through COM:VRT to verify permission. If no, you may ask the author or copyright holder send an email with copy of a written permission to VRT (permissions-commons@wikimedia.org). Thanks for your understanding. SCP-2000 13:23, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

@Dolores sepiol: I second what SCP-2000 says here: presumably you can have the author or copyright holder go through the process described at COM:VRT to explicitly grant an appropriate license, and the deleted pictures will be restored. (This also goes for the one that is not deleted, given that you are not the copyright holder.) - Jmabel ! talk 18:53, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

And with that, I would hope we are done discussing here, unless Dolores sepiol has further questions. Clearly there is no administrative matter here. The user may have been unaware of how some things work on this site, but clearly did not have bad intentions. - Jmabel ! talk 18:53, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

Prototyperspective and "AI Art Application and Improvements Handbook" on Wikibooks

I am noticing a pattern in DRs and I'm not sure if it warrants admin action or not. If it does, it shouldn't be by me, as I am active in many of these and related DRs.

The pattern is: an AI-created image is nominated for deletion as being out of scope, then Prototyperspective (talk · contribs) adds it to "AI Art Application and Improvements Handbook" on Wikibooks, and then someone notes in the DR that the file is COM:INUSE.

Bluntly, the only thing any of the images on that Wikibooks page have in common is that they came up in DRs, and I am unconvinced that the page is anything other than an attempt to game COM:INUSE.

Looking to get others' opinions on this. The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 23:21, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

@The Squirrel Conspiracy: That looks fishy to me.   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ _{please ping or talk to me}🇺🇦 00:56, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

@Jeff G.: are you saying The Squirrel Conspiracy's characterization of this looks fishy, or Prototyperspective's conduct? - Jmabel ! talk 00:59, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

@Jmabel: The described conduct.   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ _{please ping or talk to me}🇺🇦 01:19, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

If that is an accurate description, then that is certainly not OK. I'd like to see that backed up by diffs, though, so that we don't each have to go searching for evidence ourselves. - Jmabel ! talk 00:59, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

Convenience link: https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/AI_Art_Application_and_Improvements_Handbook - Jmabel ! talk 01:01, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

• I can explain it to you and I've been open about it:
• that handbook is not a priority to me but when I see DRs I a) sometimes see the relevant AI images and think about how they could be useful in the context of the DR and b) may find spending some time to expand the wikibook worth my time.
• Nothing at INUSE suggest that would be "gaming it" and if it is I didn't know but I'd then suggest this is made clear there, that page also says "realistically useful for an educational purpose" where the wikibook makes the application and realistic educational usefulness clear.
• If you don't consider the uses in that book "INUSE" then you can always just ignore them which is already done. While I don't think deleting AI images even when clear usefulness cases have been clarified and remain unrefuted is within bounds of current WMC policy even if they were not used anywhere, if you agree that it would be then I guess it is.
• Moreover, the book is new and so new images are added as I come across them now, I haven't substantially changed it again for quite a while. And for the Roman Kubanskiy images, those were some of the very few available for illustrating a section and I added all the good-quality images for that application to its section, not just these.

Prototyperspective (talk) 11:10, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

@Jmabel: : Sorry, here are the diffs:

• Prototyperspective created the book on Dec 9 using images of Putin from Commons:Deletion requests/Files uploaded by Roman Kubanskiy (DR filed November 15) and images in Commons:Deletion requests/Files in Category:Giovanna IV di Napoli by Bing Image Creator (DR filed December 6).
• Prototyperspective added an image of Sauron on Dec. 16, a day after Commons:Deletion requests/File:'Excuse me sir, where can I find the rings section?' – Fictional being placed into a contemporary realistic daily life setting.png was filed.
• Finally, though this one is not as strong a point as the others: On Dec. 13, the first Commons:Deletion requests/Files uploaded by Hyju was closed as delete. On Dec. 20, Prototyperspective added a bunch more of Hyju's images, and then on Dec. 27, those were all included in the second DR for Hyju's files. Ordinarily, this wouldn't be suspicious - after all, Prototyperspective put them in the book before they were listed for deletion - but the section they put them in is under the text "Especially useful if no other or only low-quality images are available for the concept", and the things they added were vampires, prehistoric people, and vintage comic book covers, of which there is ample art of already. Prototyperspective was also the only person advocating for keeping the first Hyju batch.

Worth noting that when the Giovanna IV images were deleted, Prototyperspective put the redlinks back in the book, calling it "unwarranted censorship deletions".

I think that all of this taken together paints a pretty clear picture of why the wikibook exists and how it's being misused. The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 02:20, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

I've voiced similar concerns. Nearly every image in that book is, or was at some point, the subject of a deletion discussion on Commons, and it's not because someone's been going through the book to pick images to nominate for deletion, and it certainly isn't just a weird coincidence either. COM:INUSE is meant to prevent the deletion of images which projects are legitimately using, not as a way to "game" deletion discussions on Commons. See also Commons talk:Project scope#Outdated (does not reflect current admin practices): policy amendment for in-scope exceptions. Omphalographer (talk) 04:27, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

Nearly every image in that book is, or was at some point, the subject of a deletion discussion on Commons Very false.

I added images based on their relevance and quality so all of them should be high-quality for the described application. I wonder though why people complain about it here rather than replacing the image with a better one if there is one. In any case, current policy hasn't made clear that INUSE only applies to files that were INUSE before the DR but whether or not that is the case doesn't matter to my freedom to use images as I see fit. If you'd like to restrict this freedom then please add a note like Images that are currently subject of deletion discussions are not allowed to be used in any other Wikimedia project. If they are used there they should be replaced by other users and are not legitimately in use. That would be something to discuss at the policy page. I apologize if my edits to the wikibook I started are considered problematic. Prototyperspective (talk) 11:17, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

 Comment I share the Squirrel's concerns about misuse of Wikibooks, and overall advocacy of out-of-scope AI-generated images when they were told many times that such images are not welcome here. Yann (talk) 07:41, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

User ignoring COM:OVERWRITE when AI upscaling

• Guise (talk · contributions · Move log · block log · uploads · Abuse filter log) block user

Guise has uploaded a lot of good French literary artwork over many years. More recently they have been returning to files they uploaded themselves years earlier and overwriting them with "better res" versions: in some cases that better resolution has clearly been obtained through AI upscaling rather than taking or finding a higher quality scan of the original source.

For example, File:William Nicholson (1872-1949) - Characters of Romance, Porthos.jpg is a scan of a 1900 drawing of Porthos the musketeer, originally uploaded in 2022. Guise replaced it this week with a double-sized "better res" AI version, improving the line quality but also replacing the simple dots of Porthos's pupils with detailed, glistening AI irises that William Nicholson never drew.

User_talk:Guise/Archive_3 has four archived COM:OVERWRITE warnings from last November, including my attempt to explain why their replacements were going beyond "may be replaced by their uploader shortly after they are uploaded", and asking that they follow the guideline and make these AI versions separate uploads. I'm concerned that they haven't seen these messages, have misunderstood them, or wrongly believe that their edits are only "minor improvements" and not a form of digital restoration. Belbury (talk) 11:41, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

Yes, the supposed AI improvement is ultimately disappointing for this Porthos file due to the modification of the pupils. Note that I've read your messages since I'm gradually revising my uploads in order to cancel the files with such a problem (for instance [6], [7], not to mention what remains to be done [8], [9]), in addition to clearly distinguishing original scans from AI-retouched files (as in the Sâr Dubnotal category or the Milady file). Regards. --Guise (talk) 13:44, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

This is almost a textbook example of something that calls for uploading under a distinct name, linked as an "other version" or "derivative work". Also: "better res" is an absolutely misleading edit summary for that upload. It should have said something like "sharpened and upscaled with AI" (and ideally with an explicit mention of what AI tool), which would also be the case if it were uploaded under a distinct filename. "better res" misleadingly suggests a higher-resolution scan, not upsampling. - Jmabel ! talk 19:02, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

It is such a textbook example that it's the 5th example of what not to do in Commons:Overwriting existing files § DO NOT overwrite. AntiCompositeNumber (talk) 03:14, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

User:Bolitachan

• Bolitachan (talk · contributions · Move log · block log · uploads · Abuse filter log) block user

Uploaded 3 non-free files after a warning not to do so Kelly The Angel (talk) 07:12, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

@Kelly The Angel: All three images gave as their sources journal articles under free licenses. In one case, it was the exact image. In another case, the image Bolitachan uploaded and the image in the article were nearly identical except for the color balance and the figure number, so I uploaded the correct version and hid the original. In the last case, Bolitachan uploaded a picture of an entire tree, while only the bottom half of that picture was in the source itself. I nominated that one for deletion. I'm not sure exactly what's going on here, but it would be nice to hear Bolitachan's response. The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 07:45, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

Most likely, Bolitachan uploads non-free files in good faith and just doesn't know how copyright works. Kelly The Angel (talk) 07:52, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

I have informed Bolitachan about this discussion. The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 07:46, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

Guido den Broeder

• User: Guido den Broeder (talk · contributions · Move log · block log · uploads · Abuse filter log) block user
• Reasons for reporting: Tendentious, harassing behavior. In the discussion #User:SchroCat above, the user referred to the posts of SHB2000 as "lies". Yann warned him that was "not acceptable, unless you back it up." After neglecting to ping Yann and me in his replies, the user went on to remove the warning as "no vandalization, nor any other reason for a block; unhelpful warning removed". That is clear en:WP:IDHT behavior. Everything I wrote above is included by reference.

  — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ _{please ping or talk to me}🇺🇦 23:42, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

•  Strongly support an indefinite ban once and for all for their continued incivility and personal attacks. All they do on Commons is stir up dramas; they're banned on 3 other WMF wikis – can we please end their endless blether once and for all? --SHB2000 (talk) 23:56, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

  In 2022 when you two tried the same but got nowhere, you claimed that I was banned on 5 wikis, that I had a slew of sockpuppets, and that I was evading a global lock.[10] I guess this is progress. You also announced that you would keep coming after me on Commons, even after Yann and Ellywa told you not to. I don't think that repeating the same discussion with nothing new to report is constructive. Guido den Broeder (talk) 00:55, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

  I also don't think snarkily trying to avoid a discussion about your behaviour is constructive. --SHB2000 (talk) 01:48, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

  For the record, I am not banned on any WMF wiki. Guido den Broeder (talk) 02:54, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

  Sorry, mate, but nice try. SHB2000 (talk) 07:50, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

You neglect to mention that I did provide the requested evidence. I rarely ping, as most users (myself included) find that terribly annoying. But I was absent for a year due to medical complications. Did pinging become mandatory during that time? Guido den Broeder (talk) 00:59, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

Guido: no, in most circumstances pinging isn't mandatory, but it is customary. I take it from your remark above that you'd rather not be pinged.

@SHB2000: when you say, "All they do on Commons is stir up dramas," is that intended to be taken literally? Offhand, [11], [12], and [13] look like productive edits. Are you saying they are not? It looks like he's had a pretty contentious couple of days, but that's a long way from "All they do on Commons is stir up dramas." I take seriously what Jeff G. says above, but please don't muddy the waters. - Jmabel ! talk 01:29, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

No, not literally. SHB2000 (talk) 01:36, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

I think that during all the years that I have been here, I have started only two or three discussions on a drama board. On my own wikis (I have 6) we don't have such boards. We don't need them, and I can't even remember the last time that I blocked someone. Guido den Broeder (talk) 02:22, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

@Guido den Broeder: What wikis are those?   — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ _{please ping or talk to me}🇺🇦 04:19, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

What happens outside of Wikimedia is irrelevant to what happens on Commons. --SHB2000 (talk) 07:49, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

•  Comment While I agree on repeated incivilities by GdB and that a warning message to stop incivilities is relevant, still a "stop vandalizing" template was clearly misplaced here. --A.Savin 02:16, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
•  Comment Where I wrote I would again calmly refute all your lies, this was in reference to a possible repeat of the discussion of 2022, where I did so, and not to the discussion at #User:SchroCat. Guido den Broeder (talk) 04:13, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
•  Support a block (3 months?), so that they get the message. Yann (talk) 07:38, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

request

Please block 弟魯 (talk · contributions · Move log · block log · uploads · Abuse filter log) block user sock of globally blocked user 14.0.174.246 09:15, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

 Done the other way round: Requesting IP blocked per Special:Contributions/14.0.226.128 and File:Victoria Harbour & Kowloon.jpg semiprotected for 1 year. --Achim55 (talk) 09:27, 11 January 2024 (UTC)